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Hackey5's Complete Contents of Balancing 2

Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
I return with number two of the renowned balancing list. Here you can discover my perspective of the game and how I believe it can be improved, for how players are able to utilise the available inventory is how they will come to enjoy the game the most.

The Soldier through to the Assault class have received my input (the classes with the more definitive combat roles), as well as Specials, item pricing and a few other things. The original thread was founded by the v2.6 balancing changes that I was personally asked by the staff to provide myself, of which derived even earlier from an old Stat Project series. Indeed, I have been playing the game and working BBR stats for years now, and for the record, first downloaded the game on December 4, 2011, which is also when I formally joined the Battle Bears Forum, despite having first created my account in April that year.

Below is my attempt to balance everything by means of improvement, creativity, originality and from a neutral standpoint. My suggestions are by no means perfect or correct in any way, but I can guarantee that each and every one is thoughtfully considered. Please read the following Vision and Standardisation sections to develop a clearer understanding of my intentions. I thank those who shared their feedback over the years as this was invaluable in helping me push beyond my own limitations to give my suggestions that refinement I could not have provided on my own.
____________________

Show Vision
Balancing extends beyond the tweaking of a few numbers here and there to achieve comparatively higher or lower power for individual weapons. Although that is the essence of balancing, it is naive to believe that that alone is sufficient to achieve balance. Readjustment, maybe, but every weapon classified as one type will likely always surpass weapons of another type, not because of their numbers, but because of their mechanics and the distinct differences in capacity. After taking into consideration the sheer complexity of the complete inventory, a vision of it being balanced may be a seemingly impossible prospect. The truth is, it is. But in working towards balance being greater than it is less, it is clear that the inventory must be assessed as a whole. Even so, it cannot be limited by any preconceptions provided by existing numbers, and it must be recognised that the effect of weapon mechanics necessitates varying levels of grading that might not result in seemingly equal treatment. However, it is all in pursuit of the ideal balance, no matter how distant. There is a bigger picture here and one will only understand what those awful smudges of paint are for once the whole thing is done.
Since the game's inception, in terms of players' general preferences, there has always been an appeal towards the Soldier and Heavy classes. They are each recognisably offensive classes which are very reliable and can adapt to most combat situations quite easily. Competitive matches frequently include these two classes above all others, and while they are by no means invincible, they are naturally advantageous by the continuous medium to long range damage that can be instantaneously dealt using automatic weapons that are hitscan and not hindered by lag, further enhanced by the synergy with closer-ranged shotguns, explosive weapons and even saboteurs. Furthermore, the learning curve with these weapons is low compared to other kinds of weapons, but retains an excellent payoff nonetheless. Turning towards the inventories of other classes, weapons tend to have more complicated mechanics and hold steeper learning curves. It is important to acknowledge that they are certainly more situational, which can have immense advantages over the Soldier and Heavy classes when wielded by experienced and skillful players, but generally lack that overall effectiveness across a wider range of combat situations that makes the Soldier and Heavy classes so preferable for plentiful kills and minimal deaths. This is plainly reflected by players' competitive selections, and unfortunately, this really has always been the case.

Two major events have occurred along the inventory development timeline. v1.4.3 saw the end of +4 Equipment stacking, eliminating the overpowering nature of many weapons when used in combination with stacked Equipment. The coming of BBG later introduced the two Pro-Mode features, the Jump and Radar. Both these two items indirectly reduced the effectiveness of not just individual weapons and Specials, but entire playstyles and classes. The Jump feature additionally changed the way players manoeuvred the maps by allowing far greater freedom of movement to hop out of tight positions and, often combined with the Turkish SW Boots, traverse previously inaccessible structures. While automatic weapon usage remained mostly unaffected, all projectile weapons and sniper rifles immediately became significantly more difficult to use due to the highly mobile nature of targets. Meanwhile, players possessing the Radar were granted crucial battlefield intelligence, no longer needing to perform visible searches for nearby targets but could immediately identify their relative positions in all directions, heavily reducing the benefit of being able to strategically plan one's movements. In my opinion, the Pro-Mode features actually achieved the opposite of what their name suggests: they made it easier to perform well while being less of a pro, not to mention increasing the difference of capability between new players and existing players so that for new players, it is a lot harder to gain an edge. If possible, I would vote for at the very least an option to disable the Pro-Mode features as a Custom Matchmaking option.

While the game has come a long way and greater balance has certainly been achieved over the years - noting that the Heavy could once move faster than a Sniper with the appropriate Equipment, and the Electric Honey once had the potential to deal 115 DPS for 12 seconds with just a 3 second reload - the Soldier and Heavy classes' appeal remains unsurpassed. The intention with my suggestions is to shift the weighting so that to an appropriate extent, all classes can be worthy contenders for competitive selection, and that those classes with the steepest learning curves can have an equal if not greater payoff than the Soldier and Heavy classes, for being able to be used with skill, in the right combat situations, and to a high degree of proficiency.

Show Standardisation
An important aspect of balancing is developing a common language that is consistent across the entire inventory. While anyone can pick out numbers, one should be able to describe exactly how and why they have done so. Before proceeding to my suggestions, do familiarise yourself with the inherent design behind the numbers.
Health
- Very low: 80
- Low: 120
- Medium: 160
- High: 200
- Very high: 240
+ Armour +1: (+10%)
+ Armour +2: (+20%)

Forward Speed
- Very low: 200
- Low: 240
- Medium: 280
- High: 320
- Very high: 360
* 'Sideward speed': -20 (of above)
* 'Backward speed': -40 (of above)
* 'Speed increase': 40 (increments of)
* 'Flying speed': 40 (increments of)
+ Speed +1: +10%
+ Speed +2: +20%

Acceleration
- Ground: 600
- Air: 300

Time-Based fields
- Activation: 0.5
- Momentary: 1.0
- Short: 2.0
- Medium: 4.0
- Long: 8.0

Damage+
- Nil: 0
- Very low: 20
- Low: 40
- Medium: 60
- High: 80
- Very high: 100
- Extremely high: 120
- Extreme: 400
* 'Half' increments of 10 up to 60 are sufficiently distinguishable in damage-dealing efficacy against numerous health levels
* 'Minimum damage' (X): 50% (of above)
* 'Maximum damage' (Y): 100% (of above)
* Minimum damage and maximum damage abbreviated as 'Explosives: X-Y'
* Total poison damage abides with damage multiplied by duration
* Radiation is equal to damage but with additional decay
+ Damage +1: +5
+ Damage +2: +10
+ Damage +1 (poison): (+10)
+ Damage +2 (poison): (+20)
+ Explosives +1: +10
+ Explosives +2: +20
+ Explosives +1 (damage >120): +25
+ Explosives +2 (damage >120): +50

Cooldown
- Very fast: 0.5
- Fast: 1.0
- Moderate: 1.5
- Slow: 2.0
- Very slow (single reserve): 3.0

Ammo
- Single reserve: 1
- Low: 2
- Medium: 3
- High: 5
- Very high: 8
+ Ammo +1: +1
+ Ammo +2: +2
+ Ammo +1 (ammo >5): +2
+ Ammo +2 (ammo >5): +4

= Automatic Weapons =
The performance of automatic weapons is determined not by stats independently, but rather stats in conjunction with each other. The most significant of these derivative fields (from mathematical calculation) is damage per second (DPS) and firing duration. Damage per clip (DPC) is relevant more so for weapons with low firing durations. The provided standardised increments (italicised) should only be used as a general guide.

Damage
- Range: 0.5-12.0
- Increment: 0.5
+ Damage +1: (varies by cooldown)
+ Damage +2: (varies by cooldown)

DPS
- Range: 10-120
- Increment: 10
+ Damage +1: (+5 DPS)
+ Damage +2: (+10 DPS)

Cooldown
- Very fast: 0.05
- Fast: 0.10
- Moderate: 0.15
- Slow: 0.20
- Very slow: 0.25

Ammo
- Range: 10-120
- Increment: 10
+ Ammo +1: +10
+ Ammo +2: +20
+ Ammo +1 (cooldown <0.20): +5
+ Ammo +2 (cooldown <0.20): +10

Firing Duration
- Range: 1.0-12.0
- Increment: 1.0
+ Ammo +1: (varies by cooldown)
+ Ammo +2: (varies by cooldown)

Automatic Weapon Calculated Fields
- shots per second, SPS = (1 / cooldown)
- damage per second, DPS = (damage / cooldown)
- firing duration = (ammo * cooldown)
- damage per clip, DPC = (ammo * damage)

====

Reload *pending
- Automatic lower tier: 4.5
- Automatic upper tier: 5.0
- Shotgun lower tier: 4.5
- Shotgun upper tier: 5.0
- Explosives lower tier: 3.0
- Explosives upper tier: 3.5
- Sniper rifle lower tier: 3.0
- Sniper rifle upper tier: 3.5
- Deployed: 1.0
- Single reserve: 3.0
- Radiation: 3.5
- Poison: 4.5
- Ability: 5.0
- Other: 4.0

Range
- Immediate: 0
- Close: 1000
- Middle: 2000
- Long: 4000 (default)
* 'Lock distance': 100% (of above)

Dispersion Angle
- Perfect accuracy: 0.00 (default)
- Very high accuracy: 0.02
- High accuracy: 0.04
- Medium accuracy: 0.06
- Low accuracy: 0.08
- Very low accuracy: 0.10

Projectile Speed
- Slow: 500
- Moderate: 1000
- Fast: 1500
- Very fast: 2000
* Arcing trajectories require positive compensation (+250)
* 'Ascend speed': 100% (of above)
* 'Descend speed': 100% (of above)

Area of Effect
- Precision: 100-50
- Small: 150-75
- Medium: 200-100
- Large: 250-125
- Extreme: 500-250
* 'Minimum damage range': Represented by first value
* 'Maximum damage range': Represented by second value

Fire Rotation Speed *pending
- Mild: 1000
- Moderate: 2000

Spin Up/Down speed *pending
- Slow: 100
- Medium: 200
- Fast: 500
* Speeds should be equal to each other

Lock Radius
- Normal: 400
- Max: 32000

Lock Time
- Very short: 1.0
- Short: 2.0
- Medium: 3.0
- Long: 4.0
- Very long: 5.0
* 'Warning time': 50% (of above)

Speed Multiplier
- Standstill: 0.00
- High potency: 0.25
- Medium potency: 0.50
- Low potency: 0.75

Health/Speed Modifier
- Heavy penalty: -20%
- Light penalty: -10%
- Neutral: 0%
- Light boost: +10%
- Heavy boost: +20%

Special Speed Modifier
- Boost: +20%

Equipment Restrictions

Ammo Equipment should not be enabled for:
- Single reserve weapons
- Abilities
- Deployed weapons
- Poison weapons

Damage/Explosives Equipment should not be enabled for:
- Radiation weapons

Melee Weapons
- Default melee | 30 damage | 5 ; 10 Melee Equipment
- +20% Special cooldown melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- +10% health melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- +10% speed melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- Damage melee | 50 damage | 15 ; 30 Melee Equipment
- Disabling melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
* A hit with a disabling melee resets both primary and secondary weapon reload as well as Special cooldown

Specials
- Duration: 15.0
- Cooldown: 30.0

Poison
* For poison and its associated labels, their effects do not stack - hitting an affected target only resets the duration.

Note that items marked as '*experimental' may require additional development, or if that is not apparent, the suggestion would specifically require further testing to ensure its stability. Some items that do require additional development are not marked as *experimental for reason that the suggested change works to improve the code integrity or is essential to an improved performance of the item.

- Existing field
+ Created field
X Removed field
* Repurposed field
(?) Field value indeterminate or uncertain
(!) Note of functional change

Information current as of 30/04/18, v2.53.
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Comments

  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited May 10
    SOLDIER - ID.1
    The Soldier is a low health, medium speed offensive class. It is best at assaulting and dispatching individual targets with reliable and synergistic weaponry. It wields automatics as primary weapons and support shotguns and explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 120 [low]
    - Forward speed: 280 [medium]
    - Sideward speed: 260
    - Backward speed: 240
    - Ground acceleration: 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 12 ; 24
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%

    Show Primary Weapons (7/9)
    The Soldier's automatics are designed to suit playstyles that are focused on dealing constant damage to one or two individual targets for a few seconds before having to reload. Speed and potential range are considered valuable assets, hence, a loss of either will result in higher levels of damage. All the Soldier's automatics, however, have generally low firing durations, being the main way to regulate the class's offensive capacity.

    In configuring stats, the ASRs serve as base models - one branch versatile and one branch damage-orientated - with which changes to damage, cooldown and ammo are calculated for the other automatics by the marked percentages.

    Note that with consideration given to Equipment, a damage variant weapon will only be statistically favourable to its respective versatile variant counterpart compensated with Damage and either Ammo or Speed, but only if the damage variant is compensated with Damage and either Ammo and Speed Equipment; using both Ammo and Speed will be a directly inferior selection.
    A Salt Rifle - ID.14
    (base) Damage: 4.0
    (base) Cooldown: 0.15 [moderate]
    (base) Ammo: 30
    - Reload: 1.5
    - Dispersion angle: 0.0 [perfect accuracy]
    X Health modifier
    X Speed modifier
    X Special cooldown modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.75 ; 1.50
    Tactical long range automatic, versatile variant; 26.66 DPS, 4.5s firing duration, rapid reload, accurate.

    Sci-Fi ASR - ID.142
    (base) Damage: 5.0
    (base) Cooldown: 0.15 [moderate]
    (base) Ammo: 20
    - Reload: 2.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.0 [perfect accuracy]
    - Speed modifier: -10% [light penalty]
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.75 ; 1.50
    Tactical long range automatic, damage variant; 33.33 DPS, 3.0s firing duration, rapid reload, accurate, speed penalised.

    Heavy A Salt Rifle - ID.15
    (+100%) Damage: 8.0
    (-33%) Cooldown: 0.20 [slow]
    (0%) Ammo: 30
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.04 [high accuracy]
    X Speed modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 1.0 ; 2.0
    General automatic, versatile variant; 40 DPS, 6.0s firing duration, average reload, mild dispersion.

    Sci-Fi HASR - ID.143
    (+100%) Damage: 10.0
    (-33%) Cooldown: 0.20 [slow]
    (0%) Ammo: 20
    - Reload: 3.5
    - Dispersion angle: 0.04 [high accuracy]
    - Speed modifier: -10% [light penalty]
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 1.0 ; 2.0
    General automatic, damage variant; 50 DPS, 4.0s firing duration, average reload, mild dispersion, speed penalised.

    Soaker - ID.16
    (+50%) Damage: 6.0
    (+33%) Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    (+100%) Ammo: 60
    - Reload: 4.5
    - Range: 1000 [close]
    X Speed modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Burst automatic, versatile variant; 60 DPS, 6.0s firing duration, extended reload, limited range.

    Urine Trouble - ID.144
    (+50%) Damage: 7.5
    (+33%) Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    (+100%) Ammo: 40
    - Reload: 5.0
    - Range: 1000 [close]
    - Speed modifier: -10% [light penalty]
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Burst automatic, damage variant; 75 DPS, 4.0s firing duration, extended reload, limited range, speed penalised.

    O.C.O. Gauntlet - ID.167
    X Damage
    - Explosives: 40-80 [high]
    - Cooldown: 2.0 [slow]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 4.0
    + Spawn delay: 2.0 [short]
    - Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Area of effect: 150-75 [small]
    - Speed modifier: +10% [light boost]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    X Damage Equipment
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    An alternative, disruptive area defense explosive launcher. Speed boost for functional shift.

    Minigun - ID.380
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Acreambo Pistols - ID.420
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Show Secondary Weapons (6/7)
    The Soldier's secondary weapons assist in dealing damage faster, otherwise being limited to damaging at a more gradual pace with its primary weapons. The secondary weapons with generally lower damage can be used somewhat independently of a primary weapon when using appropriate Equipment, although not to the extent of other classes which are specialised in the associated form of combat.
    Bearzooka - ID.17
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Area of effect: 200-100 [medium]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A basic explosive launcher.

    Rockette Launcher - ID.145
    X Damage
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1750 [fast arc]
    - Area of effect: 100-50 [precision]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A fast precision explosive launcher.

    TNT Launcher - ID.19
    - Explosives: 50-100 [very high]
    - Cooldown: 1.5 [moderate]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1250 [moderate arc]
    - Explosion delay: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Area of effect: 200-100 [medium]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A tactical delayed explosive launcher.

    Spreadshot - ID.18
    - Damage: 20 [very low]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 8 [very high]
    - Reload: 4.5
    X Projectile speed
    - Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    A light support shotgun.

    Steamshot - ID.146
    - Damage: 40 [low]
    - Cooldown: 1.5 [moderate]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Projectile speed
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    A heavy support shotgun.

    Sake Bomb - ID.166
    - Duration: 4.0 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 5 [high]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1250 [moderate arc]
    + Area of effect: 200 [medium]
    + Speed modifier: +10% [light boost]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    X Explosives Equipment
    A control-reversing saboteur. Speed boost for being non-damaging.

    Solar Wind Scar - ID.381
    Unnecessary. Alternatively, convert into a melee weapon.

    Show Melee Weapons (5/5)
    B.E.A.R. Club - ID.20
    - Damage: 30
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10

    Queensbury Rules - ID.21
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Krikkit Bat - ID.22
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +10%

    Disciplinarian - ID.141
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Speed modifier: +10%

    Kumakiri - ID.162
    - Damage: 50
    - Melee Equipment: 15 ; 30
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited April 29
    HEAVY - ID.33
    The Heavy is a very high health, very low speed offensive class. It is best at tanking and dealing high damage quickly through close ranged combat. It wields automatics as primary weapons and support shotguns and explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 240 [very high]
    - Forward speed: 200 [very low]
    - Sideward speed: 180
    - Backward speed: 160
    - Ground acceleration: 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 24 ; 48
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%

    Show Primary Weapons (6/8)
    The Heavy's automatics are designed to suit playstyles that are focused on frontline tanking and crowd control, being forced into close range due to either high spread or limited range, but with high damage and longer firing durations than that of the Soldier.
    Beebeegun - ID.42
    - Damage: 7.5
    - Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    - Ammo: 100
    - Reload: 4.5
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 2000
    (?) Spin up speed: 200
    (?) Spin down speed: 200
    @ 1.0 second firing delay
    - Dispersion angle: 0.08 [low accuracy]
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Heavy minigun, versatile variant; 75 DPS, 10.0s firing duration, prominent dispersion, prominent windup.

    Provolowned - ID.154
    - Damage: 9.0
    - Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    - Ammo: 80
    - Reload: 5.0
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 2000
    (?) Spin up speed: 150
    (?) Spin down speed: 150
    @ 1.5 second firing delay
    - Dispersion angle: 0.10 [very low accuracy]
    X Special cooldown modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Heavy minigun, damage variant; 90 DPS, 8.0s firing duration, very prominent dispersion, very prominent windup.

    Electric Honey - ID.43 *experimental
    - Damage: 10.0
    - Cooldown: 0.25 [very slow]
    - Ammo: 10
    - Reload: 4.0
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 1000
    (?) Spin up speed: 200
    (?) Spin down speed: 200
    @ 0.50 second firing delay
    - Dispersion angle: 0.02 [very high accuracy]
    - Ammo Equipment: 5 ; 10
    - Damage Equipment: 1.25 ; 2.50
    Heavy long range automatic; 40 DPS, 2.5s firing duration, slight dispersion, mild windup.

    Zombee Gun - ID.44 *experimental
    - Damage: 4.0
    + Speed multiplier: 0.75 [low potency]
    + Duration: 2.0 [short]
    - Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    - Ammo: 60
    - Reload: 4.5
    - Range: 1000 [close]
    X Health modifier
    X Speed modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Burst slowing automatic, versatile variant; 40 DPS, 6.0s firing duration, limited range.

    Field Medic - ID.153 *experimental
    - Damage: 6.0
    + Speed multiplier: 0.75 [low potency]
    + Duration: 2.0 [short]
    - Cooldown: 0.10 [fast]
    - Ammo: 40
    - Reload: 5.0
    - Range: 1000 [close]
    X Health modifier
    - Speed modifier: -10% [light penalty]
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Burst slowing automatic, damage variant; 60 DPS, 4.0s firing duration, limited range, speed penalty.

    Big Iron - ID.165
    X Damage
    + Explosives: 10-20 [very low]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 5 [high]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 2000 [very fast]
    + Area of effect: 100-50 [precision]
    + Speed modifier: +10% [light boost]
    - Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    X Damage Equipment
    + Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    An alternative, fast lightweight explosive launcher. Speed boost for functional shift.

    Flame Thrower - ID.402
    Unnecessary. Pass to another class.

    Bounce Lazer - ID.421
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Show Secondary Weapons (5/6)
    Hivey League - ID.46
    - Damage: 30 [very low - low]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 5 [high]
    - Reload: 4.5
    X Projectile speed
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    A light support shotgun.

    Plasma Orb - ID.155
    - Damage: 50 [low - medium]
    - Cooldown: 2.0 [slow]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Projectile speed
    X Speed modifier
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    A heavy support shotgun.

    Buzz Kill - ID.45
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Flyoff delay: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Explosion delay: 2.0 [short]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A tactical delayed explosive launcher.

    Mother of Nature - ID.164
    - Damage: 5.0 [medium]
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: 2.0 [slow]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 4.5
    - Projectile speed: 750 [slow arc]
    + Area of effect: 200 [medium]
    + Time to live: 4.0 [medium]
    X Ammo Equipment
    - Damage Equipment: 1.25 ; 2.50
    A support poison weapon, 40 damage total.

    Sucker Punch - ID.47
    - Duration: 4.0 [medium]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [very slow]
    - Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1250 [moderate arc]
    - Speed modifier: +10% [light boost]
    X Ammo Equipment
    X Damage Equipment
    A power-shot stun saboteur. Speed boost for being non-damaging.

    Freeze Blast - ID.391
    Unsuitable for class. Pass to another.

    Show Melee Weapons (6/6)
    All melee weapons are capable of dealing double damage if both hits (each arm) connect.
    Barbed Gloves - ID.48
    - Damage: 30
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10

    Zombee Gloves - ID.49
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Huggable Gloves - ID.50
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +10%

    Catastrophe - ID.152
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Speed modifier: +10%

    Blood Spurt - ID.163
    - Damage: 50
    - Melee Equipment: 15 ; 30

    Sword and Stone - ID.382
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    (!) Disables target's weapon and Special, forcing the equipped weapon to be reloaded and the Special's cooldown to be reset (deactivating it if currently active) for reduced effectiveness
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited April 30
    HUGGABLE - ID.51 *experimental
    The Huggable is a very low health, very high speed offensive class. It is best at harassing and ambushing targets while they are unprepared or preoccupied. It utilises close ranged abilities as primary attacks and passive abilities as secondary utilities.
    - Health: 80 [very low]
    - Forward speed: 360 [very high]
    - Sideward speed: 340
    - Backward speed: 320
    - Ground acceleration: 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 8 ; 16
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%
    (!) Can freely switch between primary and secondary weapons while reloading/charging

    Show Primary Weapons (5/5)
    Double Rainbow! - ID.56
    - Damage: 60 DPS [medium]
    X Explosives
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    - Area of effect: 250 [large]
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    X Explosives Equipment
    A sustained attack, 480 damage total.

    Headlights - ID.57
    - Damage: 40 DPS [low]
    - Duration: 5.5 (-1.5) [medium]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    - Range: 1000 [close]
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    X Explosives Equipment
    A ranged attack, 160 damage total.

    So Fly - ID.58
    X Damage
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    - Duration: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    - Flying duration: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Flying speed: 520
    X Maximum speed increase
    + Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A damaging navigational utility.

    Static Shuffle - ID.208 *experimental
    + Damage: 40 [low]
    + Incremental damage: 1.0
    X MinMax damage
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [very slow]
    - Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Charge time: 4.0 [medium]
    - Charge interval: 0.1
    (?) Range: 400 (whatever is the default shotgun range)
    X MinMax range
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    An incrementally chargeable burst attack, 80 damage from charging after 4.0s.

    Losing Your Head - ID.366
    X Damage
    - Explosives: 20-40 [low]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    + Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A repeatable burst attack.

    Show Secondary Weapons (6/6)
    Due to being able to freely switch between primary and secondary, to prevent odd behaviours, using a primary while a secondary ability is active will cause it to immediately deactivate, similar to how Cloaking works.
    Tough Love - ID.59
    X Damage
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Ability duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    X Ability cooldown
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    + Melee damage multiplier: 2.0
    Ability to deal increased melee damage for greater offense; Propbearganda derivative.

    Mini Me - ID.60
    X Damage
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Ability duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    X Ability cooldown
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    Ability to shrink and reduce hitbox size for hit evasion and escape; Flawless Disguise derivative.

    Peek a Boo - ID.61
    X Damage
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Ability duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    X Ability cooldown
    - Ammo: 1 [ability]
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    - Maximum visibility: 0.25
    - Minimum visibility: 0.05
    (!) Implement neutral grey-coloured cloaking
    Ability to cloak for stealth and escape; Cloaking derivative.

    Charged Run - ID.367
    X Damage
    + Duration: 2.0 [short]
    X Minimum duration
    X Maximum duration
    + Cooldown: (1.0) [N/A]
    + Ammo: 1 [ability]
    + Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    X Charge time
    - Flying speed: 520
    X Damage Equipment
    Ability to move faster for storming or escape; Caffeine Injection derivative.

    Super Size Me! - ID.426
    - Heal amount: 2.0
    - Heal interval: 0.1
    X Damage
    - Explosives: 40-80 [high]
    + Speed multiplier: 0.5 [medium potency]
    X Slow amount
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Ability duration: 8.0 [long
    + Cooldown (1.0) [N/A]
    + Ammo: 1 [ability]
    + Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time
    - Area of effect: 500-250 [extreme]
    Ability to heal while aided by a damage perimeter but also with slower speed and a larger size, 20 health per second; Healing Tent derivative.

    Phantom Hug - ID.278
    + Speed multiplier: 0.00 [standstill]
    - Duration: 2.0 [short]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [very slow]
    + Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 3.0
    + Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    + Area of effect: 150 [small]
    X Speed modifier
    A ranged complete-slowing saboteur. No speed boost due to already fast base speed.

    Show Melee Weapons (6/7)
    All melee weapons are capable of dealing double damage if both hits (each arm) connect.
    Bite Me - ID.62
    - Damage: 30
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10
    Frontal attack.

    Presidentures - ID.150
    - Damage: 50
    - Melee Equipment: 15 ; 30
    Frontal attack.

    Beaver Fever - ID.149
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +10%
    Swinging attack.

    Seesaw - ID.64
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Speed modifier: +10%
    Swinging attack.

    Whacktus - ID.63
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +20%
    Waving attack.

    Punk Bands - ID.151
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    (!) Disables target's weapon and Special, forcing the equipped weapon to be reloaded and the Special's cooldown to be reset (deactivating it if currently active) for reduced effectiveness
    Waving attack.

    Bearettas - ID.435
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited May 5
    DEMOLITION - ID.65
    The Demolition is a medium health, medium speed defensive class. It is best at dealing potent splash damage at choke points to disrupt opponents' movements. It wields direct explosives as primary weapons and tactical explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 160 [medium]
    - Forward speed: 280 [medium]
    - Sideward speed: 260
    - Backward speed: 240
    - Ground acceleration: 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 16 ; 32
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%

    Show Primary Weapons (6/8)
    Big Shot - ID.70
    - Explosives: 20-40 [low]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 5 [high]
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Area of effect: 200-100 [medium]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    (!) Fires at a straight trajectory
    A basic explosive launcher, versatile variant: less damage, but a shorter cooldown and reload, and more ammo.

    Gold Member - ID.71
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 1.5 [moderate]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Area of effect: 200-100 [medium]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A basic explosive launcher, damage variant: more damage, but a longer cooldown and reload, and less ammo.

    Dark Matter - ID.72
    - Explosives: 30-60 [medium]
    + Duration: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Cooldown: 1.0 [fast]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 500 [slow]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    (!) Momentary duration allows damage infliction if entering the blast radius after the initial strike
    A slow heavy disorienting explosive launcher, versatile variant: less damage, but a shorter cooldown and reload, and more ammo.

    Light Matter - ID.147
    - Explosives: 40-80 [high]
    + Duration: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Cooldown: 1.5 [moderate]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 500 [slow]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    (!) Momentary duration allows damage infliction if entering the blast radius after the initial strike
    A slow heavy disorienting explosive launcher, damage variant: more damage, but a longer cooldown and reload, and less ammo.

    Bouncing Betty - ID.276
    - Explosives: 20-40 [low]
    - Cooldown: 1.5 [moderate]
    - Ammo: 3 [medium]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 750 [slow arc]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A ricocheting explosive launcher.

    Blast-O-Mole - ID.337
    - Explosives: 50-100 (4 strikes) [very high damage]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [very slow]
    - Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 3.0
    + Projectile speed: 750 [slow arc]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    X Ammo Equipment
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A one-shot heavy explosive launcher.

    S'no Matter - ID.408
    Obscure role for class. Pass to another.

    Twin Bearzookas - ID.414
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Show Secondary Weapons (7/7) *experimental
    The following suggestions are somewhat experimental, split into two branches of lock and non-lock variants. Lock variants are able to lock on with homing missiles, otherwise they will use the miss target distance and land a certain distance from where they were fired, overriding the hitscan detection attribute. However, non-lock variants will utilise the hitscan detection attribute. This provides two distinct attack mechanisms and with their own variance in damage depending on the selection.
    Fireworks - ID.73
    - Explosives: 10-20 [very low]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 8 [very high]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Can lock: 0
    X Miss target distance
    X Lock radius
    X Lock time
    - Ascend time: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Ascend speed: 1500 [fast]
    - Descend speed: 2000 [very fast]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    X Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A light non-locking/targeted explosive launcher.

    Happy Hour - ID.74
    - Explosives: 10-20 [very low]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [very fast]
    - Ammo: 8 [very high]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Can Lock: 1
    - Miss target distance: 1000 [close]
    - Homing rating: 1.0
    - Lock radius: 400 [normal]
    - Lock time: 2.0 [short]
    - Ascend time: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Ascend speed: 1500 [fast]
    - Descend speed: 2000 [very fast]
    - Area of effect: 250-125 [large]
    X Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A light locking/seeking explosive launcher.

    RPL - ID.394
    - Explosives: 60-120 [extremely high]
    - Cooldown: 2.0 [slow]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 5.0
    - Can Lock: 0
    X Homing rating
    X Lock radius
    X Lock time
    - Ascend time: 2.0 [short]
    - Ascend speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Descend speed: 1500 [fast]
    - Area of effect: 500-250 [extreme]
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A heavy non-locking/targeted explosive launcher.

    Piece Maker - ID.75
    - Explosives: 60-120 [extremely high]
    - Cooldown: 2.0 [slow]
    - Ammo: 2 [low]
    - Reload: 5.0
    - Can lock: 1
    - Miss target distance: 1000 [close]
    - Homing rating: 1.0
    - Lock radius: 400 [normal]
    - Lock time: 3.0 [medium]
    - Ascend time: 2.0 [short]
    - Ascend speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Descend speed: 1500 [fast]
    - Area of effect: 500-250 [extreme]
    X Speed modifier
    + Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    A heavy locking/seeking explosive launcher.

    Reverse Fountain - ID.338
    - Damage: 120 DPS [extremely high]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [*very extremely slow]
    - Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 6.0
    - Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Can lock: 0
    X Homing rating
    X Lock radius
    X Lock time
    - Ascend time: 4.0 [medium]
    - Ascend speed: 500 [slow]
    - Descend speed: 1000 [moderate]
    + Area of effect: 500 [extreme]
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    X Explosives Equipment
    A lingering non-locking/targeted area defense weapon.

    Phat Man - ID.148
    X Explosives
    + Radiation: 120 RPS [extremely high]
    + MinMax radiation: 120-240 [*very extremely high]
    + Duration: 8.0 [long]
    - Cooldown: (1.0) [*very extremely slow]
    - Ammo: 1 [single reserve]
    - Reload: 6.0
    - Can lock: 1
    - Homing rating: 2.0
    - Miss target distance: 0 [immediate]
    - Lock radius: 400 [normal]
    - Lock time: 4.0 [long]
    - Ascend time: 4.0 [medium]
    - Ascend speed: 500 [slow]
    - Descend speed: 1000 [moderate]
    - Area of effect: 500-250 [extreme]
    X Speed modifier
    X Explosives Equipment
    A lingering locking/seeking radiation-enhanced area defense weapon.

    Let it Cold (non-lock saboteur variant) - ID.441
    X Explosives
    - Duration: 4.0 [medium]
    - Cooldown: 0.5 [fast]
    - Ammo: 8 [very high]
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Ascend time: 1.0 [momentary]
    - Ascend speed: 1500 [fast]
    - Descend speed: 2000 [very fast]
    - Area of effect: 250 [large]
    + Speed modifier: +10% [light boost]
    + Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    A light non-locking/targeted stun (freeze) saboteur. Speed boost for being non-damaging.

    Show Melee Weapons (3/3)
    Buzzard - ID.76
    - Damage: 30
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10

    Double Hug - ID.77
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Good Morning - ID.78
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +10%
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited February 22
    LINKS TO OTHER WORTHWHILE THREADS

    Revolutionised Plant the Bomb Scoring
    -> More information at: http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/22287/plant-the-bomb-like-you-ve-never-seen-it-game-mode-redesign

    New Map Cycling Concept
    -> More information at: http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/21534/the-daily-map-rotation-selector

    The Original Balancing List
    -> See older suggestions and all the discussion here: http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/32357/hackey5s-complete-contents-of-balancing/p1
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    ~reserved~
  • StealthKillStealthKill Member Posts: 1,328 Sergeant
    You're awesome. Total Up Vote. I was first to react on your first Complete Contents of Balancing thread, and now I am on the second.
    Here since June 2012.
  • MadogeeMadogee Member Posts: 468 Recruit
    Wow if i didn't have to sleep ill read all of it. I agree with all of what you have said. Everyone should see this and read it all its amazing. You have clearly dedicated your time.
    flamingtext_com_1410905432_578997200.png
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    Glad to see you finally got this up and running! I like most of it, although I'll have to lend some thought to the Sniper, because I'm really not sure how I feel about the primaries (that and the fact Eagle Standard appears to be a near direct upgrade on Tomahawk - perhaps I'm misunderstanding the concept?). Some of the specials might arouse some controversy as well, but I have no qualms with most of them.

    I'll keep an eye on your progress and get back to you in more detail on my concerns.
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • StealthKillStealthKill Member Posts: 1,328 Sergeant
    @Inflirtrator
    I was just so enthusiastic about this successor of his first balancing thread that I immediately positively reacted. Just the fact that he is taking the time and energy to post this is awesome to me, regardless of the usefulness of the thread. However, based on his track record, I'm really sure anyway that what he posts will be worthy of those Up Votes.
    Here since June 2012.
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @Inflirtrator
    I was just so enthusiastic about this successor of his first balancing thread that I immediately positively reacted. Just the fact that he is taking the time and energy to post this is awesome to me, regardless of the usefulness of the thread. However, based on his track record, I'm really sure anyway that what he posts will be worthy of those Up Votes.

    Well, but the fact is that it's misleading.
    We don't know for exact if it's actually well received for the content, or just because he's Hackey5.

    I bet if he posts up some crappy balance suggestions as a joke, he'll still get an avalanche of positive reactions relative to the disagrees given.
  • AlucardAlucard Member Posts: 5,238 Fabled
    @StealthKill‌ but it does help that there are people who disagree right? I mean it shows you're human.
    Meh
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    edited December 2014
    @Stealthkill: Glad to see your enthusiasm. Inflirtrator is right in saying treating reactions with thought is necessary in order for them to be productive. Regardless of what reaction you express, the important part is bringing words to it and putting on the table what your thoughts are.

    @Inflirtrator: Ah, the most skeptical follower of this series! Good to see you too. As with last time, your Disagrees mean a lot to the progression of ideas so do take the time to explain. Always happy to get down to the details.

    @Latro: Certainly more will be happening here for a while to come! I think you're right in saying the Eagle Standard plays a little too well against its counterpart. Damage + duration > reload + projectile speed. On first thought, I might reduce the Eagle's AoE so it requiring highly precise aiming (still beats no AoE at all).

    In regards to the Sniper, I don't need to play to get the indication that patience and headshots clearly aren't a focus with the latest design of the class. I am still aware that standing around and waiting for those headshots mostly failed to resolve the class's weakness and more so contributed towards it. However, "sniper" to me retains its meaning, which does not lie around confrontational burst firing or assault techniques. My untried attempt is to return its focus onto waiting for headshots, but without the unpredictability of the auto-lock system and simply requiring you to keep a general sight on your target and gain damage while you do so.
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    In all regards, these balance changes are like... butter... jelly... I don't know.

    Despite me looking like a fool and not knowing what to exactly say, you seriously get the best balance changes, though, if I may, you also should go over the Arbiter and Combat Tech classes, see what you can make of them (and their weapons) as well.

    I especially liked Assault's and Sniper's changes. SRCG's still a bit of a... 'conflict' (if you can understand what I mean here) in terms of what Assault's supposed to do.

    But that aside, welcome home, and glad to see you still do this book of changes.
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    Lightning Bolt (suggestion)
    - Damage: 55 -> 40

    Are you serious? ._.
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Bearmaster123Bearmaster123 Member Posts: 1,180 Sergeant
    @1up lol
    jro9bs3rr23y.jpg


    i got smash yay :D
  • xXMrPurpleNuggetXxxXMrPurpleNuggetXx Member Posts: 976 Corporal
    I agree with @Inflirtrator‌ , changing the core playstyle of sniper is the last thing it needs now, everything else is awesome, especially 6th sense
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    edited December 2014
    Hackey5 wrote: »
    @DaveChap: The reason I never bothered with the Assassin onwards was because the purpose of adding those classes was to generate profit more than producing purposeful content for the game. And I'd probably run out of original ideas too if I incorporated them into the system here. The Assault class only just got in, and as you mentioned with the SRCG, yeah, that's kind of what I mean.

    Fair enough on your point with Assassin onwards. That reason's already been established far before you came back anyway.

    On your point of Sniper in response to Purple, Sniper's lock times have been made to 10 seconds long across the board after her overhaul, which was probably the most atrocious one, siding away Soldier's overhaul. It's good that SkyVu's already fixing up that one, but Sniper, which your changes propose here (for the most part, at least), fix her from her overhaul as well.

    why do I always forget to make sure I complete the endcode of a quote code...
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    @Hackey5‌
    That being said, I still find it irritable that everyone should decrease LB's overall damage, since you have to have pierce aiming, and lag can throw off your shot quite easily.

    Also, I feel a WTF reaction was more needed than a Disagree. As I saw that the comment with LB's change, and felt, "Wtf...are you serious Hackey5? (¬_¬)""
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    Just got home from work. Too lazy to start any arguments.

    But one thing I would like to say.
    Cloaked Olivers are way worse than cloaked Astorias

    (totally didn't edit your post in this quote for emphasis)
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    @1UP: Which is why the Lightning Bolt receives Ammo Equipment in mind of its sharpshooting nature and lag. Keeping the rate of fire at 1.0 makes it incredibly fast for how effective it already is, so I don't think reducing its damage is unreasonable. Also, Damage Equipment is always an option.

    @Hectic:
    - Yes, the old Dead Eye makes a return with a non-negotiable firing delay of 3.0 between shots. It won't deal quite as much damage, but can score a headshot in 6 seconds while gaining up to 80 damage before then, depending on how long you aim at the target for.
    - It sounds like Cloaking has risen from the crevices of neglect since I last played. That's something new to me, and I'll be sure to keep that in mind when I start testing things. If that's the case, I'd set the duration to 15 seconds and the cooldown to 30 seconds. I'm also proposing the Sniper sits at 90 health with a universal +20% special speed boost applied to it. Does this sound like a good idea?
    - A 15 second duration/cooldown is virtually midway between its current and old (30 second cooldown/duration) stats for the Sixth Sense Goggles.
    - The Soldier suggestions, as well as those for the Heavy follow suit with more ammo and less damage on the most part. For explosives, they'll mostly be picking up damage and losing ammo to sit at the other side of the scale.
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @1UP‌ I really can't tell if you're just clueless or just trying to push LB's OP-ness off the charts.
    LB was "nerfed". The performance never changed.

    @Hackey5‌
    Just drop sniper for now.
    One thing I don't get. Why the nerf on acceleration, it wasn't enough to even strafe in the 1st place.
    I'm almost heading off for work so... Still too lazy to start anything..
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    Except that cloaking is getting a nerf that puts it back where it was to begin with. No one will use it because of how visible you'll be (possibly more visible than nerfed Peek-A-Boo? I don't quite remember).
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    1UP wrote: »
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Can you just stop on bloody LB already? The performance was never bloody changed.

    Trust me, I have my eyes on CSSG soon enough.
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    1UP wrote: »
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Can you just stop on bloody LB already? The performance was never bloody changed.

    Trust me, I have my eyes on CSSG soon enough.

    nowhere is safe.
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    @Inflirtrator‌
    Initially, it was only nerfed where you had to make more shots, in order to kill the enemy.
    Also, I was only expressing on why people would have thoughts of changing my LB.
    Right now, it seems ok, AND balanced, since it requires more hits, given the fact that it has a three ammo clip, and a long reload.
    So people have no right to bash out on me for my own affection of a weapon in an unbalanced game.
    Sure, people can have other opinions, but that's not my business.
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    Remember that we're here for discussion, not argument.

    @Inflirtrator‌: Ground acceleration is standardised for all classes at 400 and the same for air acceleration at 300. It may be viable to increase it for all classes, although its mechanics have always felt natural. Maybe.

    @Latro: Testing commences today. Let's see where Cloaking lies...
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    edited December 2014
    Cloaking is crap. This I can attest after playing games with its nerfed form. Not only was I (and others) very visible, I was being killed by AoW and LB from half a map away. R.I.P. Assassin Huggable setup.
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,779 Fabled
    @Latro: Cloaking's usage has definitely gone up, including the frequency during matches now it can be activated so often. Snipers aren't cloaked brilliantly, but due to their smallish size can be kind of deadly, especially with this Art of War gun now. However, larger classes are beyond conspicuous, so I've set the max visibility to 0.04, and the min visibility to 0.02. This may change as I observe Cloaking a bit more. I've made the unfade speed slightly less abrupt also.

    @SpectrumXIV‌: You have some interesting ideas. So you suggest the no-scope (unzoomed, just to be picky) base damage should be increased by, say, 25%, but then zooming will only initially reduce the damage before charging surpasses it in a few seconds or so? I know where you're coming from, mildly reducing a significant weakness of the Sniper in the instance of a confrontation, and it's a pretty smart way of doing it. I'm not exactly doubtful, but it's ambitious, and I'd like to hear what others think of your idea. Increasing the dispersion angle ever so slightly for no-scoping sounds like something I should have thought of before. I'll fit that in when I rewrite the sniper rifle redesign description. Nice work thinking all this up!
  • FREESHFREESH Member Posts: 5,450 Fabled
    But I like Wil's melees the way they are! :(
    e
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @Clinkzbone‌
    Help me show @1UP that LB's performance pre "nerf" and post "nerf"
    *Facepalm*
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    Hackey5 wrote: »
    Remember that we're here for discussion, not argument.

    @Inflirtrator‌: Ground acceleration is standardised for all classes at 400 and the same for air acceleration at 300. It may be viable to increase it for all classes, although its mechanics have always felt natural. Maybe.

    Well, I think low HP classes should have higher acceleration. Reason, strafing.

  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    edited December 2014
    Astoria

    I still don't like the idea of changing an already clearly defined playstyle which everyone understands to something more complicated and situational.

    Health- 100
    Speed- 315-320/315-320/315-320
    Acceleration- Unsure


    1. Categorising the rifles (I'll leave Blow Dart and UC2.0 out)

    /Non-Burst Rifles
    ~Auto-Lock
    3 Seconds Green Lock
    +2 Seconds Headshot
    ~0 Dispersion
    ~Lock Radius of 350/375
    ~Remove Invisible Hitbox for AoW
    Art Of War, Lightning Bolt, and Energy Rifle don't take as much skill as everyone think it does. It has an extended hitbox that the graphic doesn't show.
    ~Fix undamaging penetrating shots for rifles below except AoW which I have not encountered it on. Sometimes, the beam just passes through other players and not deal an damage.

    -Viper Rifle
    -Capital Pains Green
    -Art Of War(My stand on this weapon is a little... Ambiguous?)
    -Dead Eye

    /Burst Rifles

    -Capital Pains Red
    -Mambas Boy

    Non-Burst
    To be completed.

    @Hackey5‌ Do u have the stats for when the rifles were actually balanced between themselves? I can't recall which version was it
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